LyricWiki talk:Community Portal/Archive/2007 May 15 - 2007 September 30

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[edit] Artists sharing the same name

I'm wondering if there is some kind of policy for addressing bands that share the same name. I've recently started filling in lyrics for songs and albums by The Angels, but the original page contained songs by both the American Girl Group and the Australian Band. I followed Wikipedia's convention and renamed The Angels I'm working on as "The Angels (Australian band), leaving the other songs in the original place as that band existed first. Does anyone have a problem with how I handled this? Does anyone have any other ideas or suggestions for such an occurrence? Kazashi 00:27, 31 July 2007 (EDT)

That would be perfect for you to separate the Artists that way, since they are clearly distinct groups. Keep in mind, though, that you will have to use this notation not only for the Artist page itself, but also for every Song and Album as well. Looking at your history, I am not sure that you did that. The Songs and Albums need to be consistent with the Artist for ease of searching and less confusion.

You will need to move each of them from [[The Angels:Song Title]] to [[The Angels (Australian band):Song Title]]. Unfortunately we cannot Batch move them, because that would move the others there too. Good catch! Let me know if you need help. --Jeff Saul _(T-C-E) 08:42, 31 July 2007 (EDT)

Thanks! Yeah, I will have to go back and fix all the songs and albums to use the updated title, in the case of the songs it automatically loaded [[The Angels:Song Title]]. I've still got more lyrics to write up, so when I next get the chance to sit down and work on them I'll adjust the other song titles accordingly. Kazashi 21:30, 31 July 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Songs credited to the wrong artist

There's a series of songs credited to the wrong artist. Songs linked with Girl Velocity should be credited to Velocity Girl. There's no such artist as Girl Velocity. I'm new to the site, and couldn't figure out how to make this change myself. Sorry if this is the wrong place to post this. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 12.193.35.130 (talk) .

Welcome! The {{Move}} is made to place a marker for an admin to make a mass move like this. I've gone ahead and marked for Girl Velocity to be moved to Velocity Girl. If you are new to using wiki, you should look through the Help:Contents section and the help at wikipedia. Also sign your comments on talk pages by typing ~~~~. Thanks!
- YukataNinja (Talk • C • 歌) 14:11, 11 July 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Newbie Question

Is there an actual message board associated with LyricWiki.org, or is this the best forum to ask a question?

I am trying to find the lyrics or a link to them for the parody song of Terry Cashman's Talkin' Baseball called Talkin' Dopeball. It aired during a 1983 Weekend Update segment on Saturday Night Live, and dealt with the rampant use of drugs in professional sports. --86Beaver 06:26 pm, 23 May 2007 (PDT)

As far as I can tell, the lyrics haven't yet made their way onto the 'net. No YouTube matches, either. Sorry. ----Kiefer <img src="/images/5/58/KieferE.jpg" alt="Esperanza" /> <img src="/images/f/f9/KieferTalk.jpg" alt="Talk!" /> 23:38, 23 May 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Song Template

I think that the song template should have also the command "Length" as the album template. I'm inserting some lyrics and nearly all of the songs have written their length but I don't know where to put there in the song page (all the songs formated the same way...). --Ludovico 08:44, 10 May 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Song Credits Template

Do we have a template that lets us denote who wrote the lyrics or composed the music? On many songs, bands list such credits. --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 18:41, 12 May 2007 (EDT)

We don't. So far, I have just added a ==Credits== section directly above the {{SongFooter}} and listed the credits there.

- teknomunk (talk,E) 23:10, 12 May 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Artist profiles

This particular subject may have been proposed before. How about profile pages for artist, band members and their ilk? Articles with extensive information about the people behind the music. Such as sex, birth/death place/date, former and current memberships/projects, a photograph and different aliases etc. The pages exist in a new type of namespace - examples seen here:

I also made a first version of the profile template to be used here - User:Frontway/Template:Profile. So, yeah, speak your mind. --Frontway 11:15, 13 May 2007 (EDT)

I don't really see myself using this, I generally work on just the lyrics and basic formatting. I have a hard time doing encyclopaedic type writing, which is why my only real edits to Wikipedia are spelling and grammar corrections.

I don't think that we should have full articles about the artist, leave that to sites like Wikipedia. However, I have seen other people putting this type of information at the top of the artist page and I don't think there is anything wrong with doing that as long as it is short.

- teknomunk (talk,E) 21:42, 14 May 2007 (EDT)

Yeah, see, I really don't think there's a need for artist profiles when we already link to Wikipedia pages on all the sites.

TheIndieGunsGo

[edit] Help:Non-English Songs; out of date?

On Help:Non-English Songs under the title name section, the examples are now redirects to a page of a different name, thus negating the instructions of that help section. Can someone update this section please? --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 21:06, 13 May 2007 (EDT)

Teknomunk fixed it. Thanks! ----Kiefer <img src="/images/5/58/KieferE.jpg" alt="Esperanza" /> <img src="/images/f/f9/KieferTalk.jpg" alt="Talk!" /> 23:45, 13 May 2007 (EDT)

I have a problem with that though, the album 鳳 (ほう) (2001) by Maximum the Hormone contains parenthesis itself. Should I just put another parenthetical afterwards (in between the first and the year)??? --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 01:34, 14 May 2007 (EDT)

Additionally, the artist 中島みゆき noted in that help example has all of their albums as 中島みゆき:AlbumName; thus not following the previous title convention. What about those links, are they just wrong? --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 01:40, 14 May 2007 (EDT)

Is 鳳 (ほう) the actual name of the album? As far as I can tell, the name is just '鳳' [1] In that case, it would not be a problem.

中島みゆき needs to be fixed. When I have time, I will do a batch move on the artist. There are a few other artists with the same problem, i.e. were created during the time we were still settling on a standard. These just need to be found and fixed.

- teknomunk (talk,E) 11:22, 14 May 2007 (EDT)

On the band's website it lists it with the parenthetical as 鳳 (ほう). However I wonder what that means in the parenthesis... Google language tools translates ほう as "one." And the album is the "1st, mini Album." Not really sure though. Also know Amazon isn't a very good source for names, since it's by user suggestion a lot of the time (I've been able to change certain things before, to be more accurate). --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 20:52, 14 May 2007 (EDT)

According to my dictionary 鳳 is pronounced 'hou' (or written in Japanese kana, ほう) and is defined as a mythical Firebird God, something like a Phoenix except probably without the rebirth from ashes thing.

Usually when I come across Japanese text that has something in parenthesis, is is usually a reading of the kanji directly before it. This is done instead of using something called furigana (振りがな) which has the reading above the kanji. This is usually done for words that are not commonly know to the target audience. The other reason that a reading is provided for kanji is when it is read as a different word to give a slightly different meaning to a word. A common example of this is 運命 (Unmei,Fate) being read as 定め (Sadame,Destiny). You usually find this in poetry and music lyrics.

On Musicbrainz the album is listed as 'Ootori' [2]. In ja.wikipedia.org, the album is listed as '鳳' [3]

But if the album actually contains parenthesis, just list the romanization after the one that is part of the album.

- teknomunk (talk,E) 21:32, 14 May 2007 (EDT)

[edit] What happened?

I logged on this morning and there are over 422K pages. On Friday, it was somewhere around 218K. WTF?
--Jeff (talk,contrib,E) 09:07, 14 May 2007 (EDT)

A while ago, we were losing page count due to an error in the software. Sean fixed the statistics (see Talk:Main Page#Stats), though you may want to check with him to make sure this is not another error. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by teknomunk (talk) .

[edit] Thoughts For A Japanese Music Group

I have had this on my mind for some time now, but I think it is about time to present it to the community.

I don't think it is any secret that I work almost exclusively on Japanese lyrics and I have noticed a recent influx of people working on these lyrics. I would like a group formed to help coordinate the task of updating and inputting Japanese lyrics.

In my opinion a good group should stay out of the way as much as possible, providing help when needed and asked for, not policing the actions of others. As such, my thoughts on what the group should be responsible for is this:

Provide a place to coordinate the romanization and translation of Japanese lyrics and provide a way to have peer reviews of both.
Provide a way to pool resources such as CD booklet scans, websites, etc. to help with translations and romanizations.
Provide a place for discussing Japan, the Japanese language and culture as it relates to lyrics and music.

Personally, I am most interested in getting peer reviews of translations, as this is the area in which I currently am focusing my Japanese studies.

I don't expect this to take off immediately, but I wanted to get the idea out there for discussion. Any thoughts or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks
- teknomunk (talk,E) 13:14, 16 May 2007 (EDT)

You're essentially talking about a group of moderator-like people, right? I think it's a good idea to create some uniformity amongst all of the lyrics here; some songs are listed under Japanese text titles while others are under romanized Japanese titles. The issue of romanization form also needs to be examined.

I have my resources for lyrics and personal guidelines for authenticity. I'd be happy to discuss those with other people. -Atashi 14:49, 16 May 2007 (EDT)

Somewhat. We as individuals would identify malformed lyrics and mark them to be fixed. The group would be for asking questions such as "Is X a correct way to translate Y?" or "How should X be romanized in this instance?".

I was thinking of something similar to this page for discussing policy, a section of the help pages that we would maintain (the ones specific to Japanese), and such. As you mentioned, getting standards for romanization is probably one of the very first things we will decide.

The other main thing I was thinking about is that this would be for helping each other proofread our translations and romanizations. I know that I have made mistakes in translation, and if this can help catch those cases where this happened and will happen, then I think it will be well worth it.

But, yes, simply put, we will moderate the Japanese lyrics.

- teknomunk (talk,E) 22:37, 16 May 2007 (EDT)

Sounds good to me. I'd try and help as much as possible. --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 22:16, 16 May 2007 (EDT)

Ooh, sounds very good to me :). Even as a Japanese, I still need sharpening of my skills, and I believe that as a group, it would be great help to many. Also, I'd love to help out as much as possible in kanji, romanizing and translating. -- BryghtShadow 06:43, 17 May 2007 (EDT)

I agree that standards for romanization is an important issue, and there are rooms for discussion. Many different standards available, and sometimes the lyric would be represented in an unusal way, e.g. words usually use KATAKANA represented in hiragana. These issues need discussions.

Maybe I cannot help the translation part, but I would glad to see peer reviews.

And a place can discuss things releated to music and lyrics really attracts me.

--Fujirou 07:07, 17 May 2007 (EDT)

I threw something basic up at LyricWiki:Japan.

- teknomunk (talk,E) 13:42, 17 May 2007 (EDT)

Looks great! Sad to say, my Japanese is real bad (I'm not a Japanese, myself), so I'd be taking more help than contributing. — 0612 (TALK); Posted: 02:11, 18 May 2007 (EDT)

Wow, it's looking great! I can already see it growing. -- BryghtShadow 06:26, 18 May 2007 (EDT)

[edit] SOTD Nomination Template

I have just created a new template to help nominations for Song of the Day. I often find new/inexperienced editors using incorrect syntax for SOTD nominations, so this will help eliminate it.

For use: {{subst:SOTDNom|Artist=<<Artist>>|Song=<<Song Title>>|Reason=<<Reason>>}}

The template automatically signs for you and as long as you use the "subst:" function, it should not interfere with Überbot, as it should be the correct syntax. More info can be seen at SOTD page or the template page (links above). So what do you think? --Will M a k 050389 16:01, 16 May 2007 (EDT)

I like it, but there should also be a Day parameter so we can specify what day it should be featured if the reasoning has to do with something like it being a single released on a specific day. However, I assume that's the only situation so that could actually work in the reason parameter... but if you can think of more situations then it would call for the Day parameter. --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 04:23, 18 May 2007 (EDT)

I have added a new parameter for any additional notes; it is not a required parameter. Hope you like it! --Will M a k 050389 15:01, 18 May 2007 (EDT)

You should also post information regarding the template on the SOTD page. --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 23:05, 18 May 2007 (EDT)

I have added information about the template on the page (see this edit). I have not added the parameters table that is on the template page, do you think this would help more? --Will M a k 050389 23:58, 18 May 2007 (EDT)

No just reference it, make sure there's a link to the template page for more information. We want to tell them that it's there, but there's no reason to duplicate info. --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 02:39, 21 May 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Thoughts for a Help page for Japanese lyrics

This idea of a Guideline/Help page for Japanese (and hopefully for other languages) has been mentioned a few times in LyricWiki_talk:Japan and LyricWiki_talk:Japan#Guidelines, and I'm hoping to gather many thoughts regarding this.

If it were to be created, under what link shall it be created?
- BryghtShadow 05:38, 22 May 2007 (EDT)

I assume since nobody replied to this, either nobody cares, or it is okay to do. Either way, the page(s) are going to get created, using the guidelines discussed at LyricWiki_talk:Japan.

- teknomunk (talk,E) 00:52, 31 May 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Soundtrack Template

In my attempt to standardize how we handle Soundtracks, I have created a new template for Soundtrack Albums: Template:Album/Soundtrack.

It automatically assigns Genre=Soundtrack, including sub-category (movie, musical, etc.) It also can handle Various Artists or Artist; for this I used a nifty IF statement. (We could also this line in the normal Album Template, thus eliminating the need for VariousArtistsAlbum Template).

I will also work on defining the standard in a help page, for now I will give basics here. User:JeffASaul/Sandbox

I am also thinking of subcategorizing Disney films. I know this is done to some degree, but I want to make it cleaner.

Let me know what you think.
--Jeff Saul (talk,contrib,E) 09:20, 23 May 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Can the Orphaned Pages be made more accessible?

There are a lot of orphaned pages, ~100 000. It would be great if these were more accessible than just by an alphabetic listing. I would like to be able to see the orphaned pages for one artist, so I could add orhpaned songs to the artist page, replace duplicate pages with redirects and so on. Perhaps a search in the orphaned pages would be possible, a list of orphaned pages of one namespace (= artist) or 2–3 letter jumplinks like on category pages? Hs 11:33, 23 May 2007 (EDT)

I have the same issue myself. I have found a way to make it a bit less painful.

When you go to the page, the url looks like this

http://lyricwiki.org/index.php?title=Special:Lonelypages

and you will see 200 on a page. If you click on 500, your url will look like this

http://lyricwiki.org/index.php?title=Special:Lonelypages&limit=500&offset=0

change the limit=500 to limit=5000 (this is the highest it can go) this will show 5,000 on a page

Change the offset=0' to offset=10000 this will show the list strating with item 10,001. You can change this value based on where in the alphabet the item you are looking for is (S for example would be somewhere around 70,000 or so)

It's not a perfect solution, but it's better than scrolling through so many pages.

Hope this helps!--Jeff Saul (talk,contrib,E) 12:42, 23 May 2007 (EDT)

Thanks, that’s a start! Hs 17:05, 25 May 2007 (EDT)

There are far too many orphaned pages, is there some way to make a bot that can go through and add all of these orphaned pages to the Other Songs section of artists? I'll look around on how to do this, but if an admin knows how to do it easily that would be nice. Would there be any objections to doing this mass updating?

YukataNinja 15:55, 7 July 2007 (EDT)

Or an easier thing to do would be to make the server cache the special page for orphaned pages, the default is to generate it per request which is very slow because of the ~100,000 pages it has to organize each time. I don't know how to do this with the mediawiki software, but I know that is how wikipedia has it for their orphaned page.

YukataNinja 16:49, 7 July 2007 (EDT)

The server has been changed to cache special pages that are resource expensive (like orphaned pages listing). I think it might take a week for the cache to be built.

- YukataNinja (Talk • C • 歌) 16:53, 12 July 2007 (EDT)

Is this why as of today, there is still only 1,000 items. (Beginning with punc, numbers and A). The rest of the alphabet still does not show. --Jeff Saul _(T-C-E) 09:50, 31 July 2007 (EDT)

It looks like mediawiki limits cache-ing to 1000 pages. Might be a work around, I do not know. - YukataNinja (Talk • C • 歌) 16:40, 31 July 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Music Video Links Are Not Working

I have checked the videos on YouTube them self but the links here are not working. I have checked many artists and none have worked. Depswa 21:41, 6 June 2007 (EDT)

I think your problem may be that you are double template-ing. When you use {{SongFooter}} you do not have to use {{Video}}. Check out this fix I made to one of the songs you've edited. --Will M a k 050389 23:07, 6 June 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Ads messing up site

Please see discussion on LyricWiki_talk:Ads#Ad_messing_up_site
YukataNinja 17:06, 11 June 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Timestamp

I'm sure lyricwiki would like to be considered an international site. So, why are timestamps after signatures, etc in EDT? Why not GMT? This makes more sense for us international users. I don't even now what the time difference between EDT and GMT is... Has this been discussed anywhere before? This newbie would appreciate some feedback... :) Gold fritter 04:04, 16 June 2007 (EDT)

OK, it is now 9:49Z (= GMT without DST), that is 10:49 GMT with DST. For the server time, see my signature. It's indeed a strange offset, and I wonder where the minutes come from :)

Point of attention (not very important, but still...) ?

--Mischko <img src="/images/3/31/Talkicon.png" alt="Talk to me" /> <img src="/images/1/1e/EsperanzaIcon.png" alt="Esperanza Member" /> 05:31, 16 June 2007 (EDT)

Err... At the risk of sounding ignorant: what do you mean by Point of Interest? Sorry... Gold fritter 15:30, 19 June 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Partial Lyrics?

If there are certain lyrics we are simply unable to decipher, is there any way to begin a page with partial lyrics? That way, when others contribute, we may end up with a full song. BigCat8 03:54, 22 June 2007 (EDT)

There is no official way to do this, so just mark the missing parts in anyway you can think of. It will be removed eventually anyway.

- teknomunk (talk,E,日本) 08:11, 22 June 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Artist Page / Album Page

I'm new to the site, and I've just started contributing. I'm doing major cleaning up for some artists I know well, and I'd like to know this: do I have to insert every album detail section twice, once in the artist page, and once in the album page? Or does one of these two get created automatically? If I have to do it twice, then I'm puzzled about creating album pages, since they seem to give no further informations. Thank you. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Samuelier (talk • contribs) .

First, sign your posts. Second, album pages denote information pertaining to the album, i.e. the album cover, length, genre, all songs, and some other stuff. Yes, most of it is repeated, but there are some smaller details that go in. You can always add more, like guest artists or weird facts. --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 17:39, 23 June 2007 (EDT)

Sorry, I thought signing was automatic. Thanks for your reply, but.. is one of them two automatically generated from the other? (And which one, in case). --Samuelier 10:45, 25 June 2007 (EDT)

None are auto, but you could put noinclude tags and the subst the page... but meh unless it becomes a standard don't worry about it. --Notmyhandle (talk • contribs) 02:35, 26 June 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Too many connections

Admins, Is anyone else reciving the following error?

LyricWiki has a problem Sorry! This site is experiencing technical difficulties. Try waiting a few minutes and reloading. (Can't contact the database server: Unknown error (204.16.240.99))

or

Too many connections

This has been happening a lot today. --Jeff Saul (talk,contrib,E) 16:24, 26 June 2007 (EDT)

I got the latter a few times today. I don't know what can be done, as Sean hasn't been here in a while (he's on his honeymoon).

- teknomunk (talk,E,日本) 17:42, 26 June 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Admins Take Note

Over the past 24 hours, I have warned 3 similar IP address for Spam activities. User talk:200.83.4.3 User talk:200.83.4.4 User talk:200.83.4.5. From what i can tell, the IP originates in Chile. I just wanted to alert the admins to watch for this pattern of IP address.

While I have your attention, is there any talk page or such that only us admins can see?

--Jeff Saul (talk,contrib,E) 09:20, 6 July 2007 (EDT)

What's about this one? 210.13.105.23 ( http://lyricwiki.org/index.php?title=Special:Contributions&target=210.13.105.23 ) I fixed what I was able to. --MetalSnake 13:12, 6 July 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Delete Pages?

I hope this is the right place, if not tell me please. I found this page: Lacrimosa:Riun this seems to be typo a site which the bot take over. The correct lyric is already found at Lacrimosa:Ruin. --MetalSnake 18:08, 10 July 2007 (EDT)

I went ahead and deleted that page. In the future, if you want to mark a page for deletion, put {{Deletion| and put the reason it should be deleted here. }}

- teknomunk (talk,E,歌) 18:22, 10 July 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Maori Songs / Waiata

Amazed nobody has listed any Maori songs yet, so I'm going to get busy and list a few to start off. I will endeavor to add more as I get time. Hopefully some others will come along and contribute.

[edit] Who Performed This Song and What's The Title??

I was at Cedar Point Amusement Park a few days ago and, in a loop of summer related tunes they played a fantastic song that included the following lyric:

"I want to sit here in the sand"

It also made refernece to "summertime in this town"

The sound was reminiscent of Chicago. I really enjoyed it and made a note of the most prominent lyric stated above, thinking I could easily find out what it was. Only, I can't find it anywhere! Can anyone help?

Thanks in advance!

Joecrow 21:12, 27 July 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Country Flags

Anyone know of a set of small flags (free ones) that we can put next to the languages on the Main Page?
- teknomunk (talk,E,歌) 00:21, 6 August 2007 (EDT)

I'm sure we could get the flags on Wikipedia (they probably all are PD); the problem we have is languages have several different countries. According to English language, it is the official language of 71 countries. --Will M a k 050389 02:07, 6 August 2007 (EDT)

http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Flag_icons "These flag icons are available for free use for any purpose with no requirement for attribution." As for country-confusion - I think that generally USA/Britain=English, Germany=German, etc.. That's not a problem... I see they haven't been added yet? Oboro 11:53, 18 September 2007 (EDT)

Thanks. Those look like just the thing I needed.

- teknomunk (talk,E,歌) 12:01, 18 September 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Backspace

Why isn't there a backspace in the song template between inverted commas and "by... It looks like this: This song appears on the album "xxx"by xxx. --Eyesglare (writing to reach you) 05:05, 6 August 2007 (EDT)

I have no idea, but FYI, backspace is the key above enter that removes a character. What you're referring to is a whitespace. --Timm 14:53, 14 September 2007 (EDT)