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User talk:Kiefer/Archive 2007

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[edit] Particle Man and such

I haven't actually been to this site in a while prior to today; an anonymous fellow came along to TMBW and tipped us off on Talk:Main Page. I'm registered here now, though, so I'll try to lend a hand if I see one is needed. Cool site. :) -CapitalQ 09:26, 9 March 2007 (EST)

Rock on!
CapitalQ: Thanks for joining, This Might Be A Wiki is pretty sweet... glad to have you :)
Kiefer: Thanks for reaching out to the TMBW guys, this will be fun and soon we should have a VERY vibrant area of the site around TMBG and their side-projects! (Thanks for filling me in too... lately it's gotten to be very late at night before I get on, so I might have missed it)
-Sean Colombo 16:49, 9 March 2007 (EST)

[edit] Suggestions Pages

Kiefer said that I added a suggestions page on "Five For Fighting". I just wanted to tell him that I didnt (24.129.119.12 21:25, 17 May 2007 (EDT)

Im sorry, I did. I really didnt know wat u were talking about. Thanks for showing me that example. I just thought that it would make finding a song a lot easier. Thanks,(24.129.119.12 11:25, 28 May 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Codes are confusing

I know you're still on (hopefully).. can you fresh me on re-directs? I'm not sure if I'm doing it right.. #REDIRECT [[Disney:Cheetah_Sisters_(Correct)]] on the pages that needs to be re-directed from "other songs". Is that correct? Even after the change, when I go back to the link, it shows the original page. -- Khluvr621 23:42, 13 March 2007 (EDT)

thanks :) -- Khluvr621 23:58, 13 March 2007 (EDT)

Oops. The only reason I did those was because when I searched for those particular movie names via LyricWiki, I noticed that those specific pages already had the entire soundtrack and all the songs under that "album" name. Those song pages are not on within the "Disney" name. Plus I thought it would be good to use up the existing soundtracks pages; as all of those are "splits". -- Khluvr621 15:31, 16 March 2007 (EDT)

Please don't yell at me! (hides).. I did a little tweaking on the Disney page. Teknomunk said it'd be a good idea to separate the "Disney Channel" related aside from the "Disney Movies", since it's just going to expand more. I also had a talk with my husband on how I can do this, and researching the Disney links via Wikipedia, I have discovered that it's merely impossible to have everything on that one page (trust me, there's alot). So my best bet was to categorize it, using a similar format that Wikipedia uses. AND... with this format, anyone can take sections of the page (for example, Channel Movies and Theme Songs; if anything gets too big) and place it onto another page & put a link between both pages (the Disney and the new one). As of this note, all of the animated and non-English movie albums has been updated with the song/song links that appeared on the old format - I'll get to the rest over the weekend and next week. (Yes I admit, I acted like a blonde... tonight was the first time I saw the Jamaican Bobsled Chant, which respectively goes to the movie "Cool Runnings" (no lie, the movie is a "live-action" Disney film)). Thank you for the advice on soundtracks -- Khluvr621 00:22, 17 March 2007 (EDT)
I saw that Khluvr621 and it looks rather good. This next week is my spring break so I will get to work on the non-english lyrics soon (probably tomorrow morning/afternoon).
- teknomunk (talk,E) 00:29, 17 March 2007 (EDT)
By the way, Cool Runnings is an awesome movie.

The disambiguation pages seems like a better idea. It was just an idea to "clean" it up. I didn't touch the "Other Songs" in a while, so if it were to be organized by movies,... I just thought of that (vertical & horizontal). Anyone can clean it or organize it however they want. -- Khluvr621 10:40, 17 March 2007 (EDT)

Maybe this is an idea? [Testing]. I don't know how "word" the re-direct; I know you want examples, but would you like to see the rest on one entirely new page, or split up even more? Ok, back to Wanted Pages. Gotta kill those red links -- Khluvr621 13:37, 18 March 2007 (EDT)

Anything takes a lot of experimenting. I finally decided on that particular disambiguation "page" last night, so that I can break up the *entire* Disney company into smaller pieces. Different companies getting sold to Disney, etc; that's where the affiliates on the bottom comes in (just a little F.Y.I). For the Disney Channel, I hope it's okay with you on how the movies are on one side; the show themes are on the other. I admit, but, I did take the .div code from Teknomunk's userpage to split the page up. As far as information flows, yes it's going to take time, but eventually the "Other Songs" will get shorter. -- Khluvr621 13:29, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Hey dude,

Check this out if you have a sec, and let me know your thoughts. :-/
Thanks,
- Sean Colombo 22:45, 18 March 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Capitalization

Hi, um the actual name is all lower case. I didn't quite understand the capitalization info page, does it mean regardless of however the artist spells their stage name you want it all caps? Aussie grl rulz 09:19, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Soundtracks Part Deux

I am also interested in posting Soundtracks (and Compilations) where there are more than one artist. I see that Bea put up Romeo and Juliet. I put up Honeymoon in Vegas under Various Artists (of which I think I did a good job <pat myself on back>) and I agree, that can get messy real quick. Have you guys figured a way around this? There are MANY songs that ONLY exist on Soundtracks and Compilations, so this would be a great addition, instead of making them orphans.

BTW, I think you should have a Category or Genre for strictly Compilations. Soundtracks could fall into this, but so could Tribute albums, NOW, etc.

I love this place, it is now my new obsession! OK Time to go back to work!
--JeffASaul 14:04, 21 March 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Re: idonthack

Wow, I didn't even notice I was submitting duplicate pages. My player was set to do it all automatically. I've now told it to prompt me before it does anything, and I'm going through my own history fixing anything that looks weird. Thanks for letting me know. -- idonthack

[edit] Artist Pages

Is there a certain template I can use for artist pages? Anomy 23:38, 29 March 2007 (EDT)

[edit] instrumental template

ah, now I know... --Speckmade 23:34, 30 March 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Info

Hey, thanks for the info. I fixed the Einherjer page as far as capitalization goes, I'll get around to making the actual lyric pages look nicer as well as creating album pages tomorrow probably. One thing I was wondering about, though, is I was able to upload the Nile album covers just fine, but when I tried to do it for Einherjer it tells me "'.jpg' is not a recommended image file format." Weird. Lupis 00:16, 31 March 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Different Album Versions

What is the best way to deal with albums with different tracks on different versions? The case in point is Bonzo Dog Band:Tadpoles which in it's original 1969 form had the Paul McCartney produced Urban Spaceman as track 6 (for example [1] or the packaged "The Outro: Tadpoles/Keynsham" multi CD on Amazon) On the 1993 US CD it had a completly different track 6. hawtin 23:45, 3 April 2007 (BST)

Okay. According to this, I'm The Urban Spaceman was originally on the US version of The Doughnut in Granny's Greenhouse, which was released as Urban Spaceman, and was on the UK version of Tadpoles, which was later re-released as I'm the Urban Spaceman. So, hmmmm....
This is a tough one. I guess the UK versions are the originals, so the listings should go with them, with the US changes listed afterwards with a notation. I had the US version and didn't know there was a different UK version. My apologies. Let's see what I can do to correct the page now. --Kiefer 21:34, 3 April 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Placebo Bonus Cd

Hi Kiefer! Thank you very much for your help in all the articles I have created/edited. Since the bonus Disc of Sleeping with ghosts by Placebo consists of Covers, either we should add the parenthesis to all of the tracks or put them all away. I don't see the sense in keeping just the Sinead O'Connor note and not the others :-] (sorry for my "spaghetti-English") --Eyesglare 07:36, 9 April 2007 (EDT)

Adding them all would be great! If all an artist did were covers, I wouldn't suggest doing that, but since the album is an all-covers bonus, then I don't think it will be overwhelming to have that information added. Thanks for clarification on your edit. --Kiefer 07:49, 9 April 2007 (EDT)
Ok, I'll do that! At first I didn't know what to do because in the song page I had already added "this is a cover of...by..." and thought the parenthesis were superfluous, but it's definitely better to add them, I'll do as you suggested, thanks :-]--Eyesglare 07:55, 9 April 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Ad layouts

Hiya... If you have a sec, I'm started messing around with the possible Ad Layouts and could use some feedback.
Thanks,
-Sean Colombo 03:46, 11 April 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Bon Jovi vs Jon Bon Jovi vs Jon Bongiovi

I need your help. All of the songs on the page for Bon Jovi are attributed to Jon Bon Jovi (the lead singer). Jon had two solo albums, Blaze of Glory and Destination Anywhere, only these should be attributed to him. All of the others should be by Bon Jovi except Jon Bongiovi - The Power Station Years (this is a completely different person). Consequently, all of the Bon Jovi songs and JBJ songs also have pages under Bon Jovi as orphans. The actual songs on the page are correct to the albums. What's the best way to get this whole thing proper? Thanks. Jeff 19:22, 14 April 2007 (EDT)

WOW!!! That is quite a mess. Usually the way to go would be to have everything moved to the correct artist with a bot, but as you mentioned, most is incorrect, but some is correct. Unfortunately, that means that it is a step-by-step process, unfortunately.
Here's what I would do:
1) Open the Bon Jovi page in two windows. (So that during #4 you can compare them.)
2) Edit one of the open pages so that each of the incorrect links say "Bon Jovi" instead of "Jon Bon Jovi"
3) Preview
4) Compare the two pages, side by side. If there are any links that have turned to red (meaning that there is a Jon Bon Jovi page for that song, but not one for Bon Jovi), open that lyrics page and move it to "Bon Jovi". (Now for the tedious part....)
5) Open each of the "Jon Bon Jovi" links that are unnecessary and turn them into a REDIRECT (#REDIRECT [[Bon Jovi:Song Title]]).
6) Once that is done, then use the open and corrected page to copy and paste onto the album pages (which likely had to be moved) so that they have correct links, too.
7) Now, the Jon Bon Jovi page has to be corrected by having the Bon Jovi albums deleted and vice-versa.
8) Both pages should have a "Related Artists" section after the Other Songs with links to the other page and then save them.
9) If you really wanted to be obsessive, then open up the Orphan pages and correct those links or add them to the Other Songs sections. Bon Jovi's is currently at [2].
I think that's it. Sounds like a good 2-3 hour job. (Which probably means it'll take at least 4 hours.  :-] ) If it sounds too daunting, I can always put it on my to-do list. That's a good find (and by that I mean a real mess that really needs cleaning up. Just let me know.
I was pretty much afraid it would be like that. I have no problem doing that, I just wanted to check for an automated route first. Jeff 14:24, 16 April 2007 (EDT)
The Jon Bongiovi album is one of Jon Bon Jovi's albums, so that should be on the Jon Bon Jovi page, BTW.
REALLY! I could not find reference to this on Bon Jovi's website. I thought it was a completely different person. No rpoblem, it will be part of his solo stuff. Jeff 14:24, 16 April 2007 (EDT)
Good luck! --Kiefer 23:14, 14 April 2007 (EDT)
Thanks for the support. Yes I have taken on some daunting tasks, it makes me feel like I really am contributing. Plus, I like to switch every once in a while. What do you think of what I did with the Alison Krauss and Jimmy Buffett pages.
Based on Bon Jovi, I am thinking I should separate Alison Krauss and Alison Krauss & Union Station pages separating Solo from Group, which at this point is actually relatively easy.
As for Jimmy Buffett, I sort of modeled it after Rolling Stones, in that I separated by decade (although that one was separated in to different pages, while mine just shows album name and cover and then the songs are on the specific album page. I may have gone overboard with this artist though, turining into a complete discography and including ALL his live albums, even though 99% of the lyrics are the same. Thanks! Jeff 17:02, 17 April 2007 (EDT)

[edit] New Spambot

I'm sure you have noticed this already, but there seems to be a new bot spamming the site. It looks to be very aggressive with about 7 pages spammed in the last 15-20 minutes. Just keep an eye out for this.

- teknomunk (talk,E) 23:44, 27 April 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Wiki-Lyrics Script

Hi, I've noted that you added lyrics tags to an instrumental song created by WL... Is that the current correct way to do it? I'm guessing yes, which leads me to the following request: please, try to keep me updated with the formatting changes on the site. I check on the generated pages from time to time to verify they are not adding trash, but I'm not here often enough to notice every change to the site standards. It is my intention though to create pages as correctly as possible, so any hint on things that could be fixed would be very much appreciated. --Attendant 14:31, 29 April 2007 (EDT) (Wiki-Lyrics script developer)

[edit] Monsters in the Morning

This is a message for all people who don't know who the Monsters in the Morning are. The Monsters are an American band based in Orlando, Florida. They currently have a radio show called Real Radio 104.1. This can be heard worldwide on the official Monsters website. For more information, visit their website or see the Monsters in the Morning Wikipedia page. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 85.12.68.1 (talk) .

[edit] Category:Requests For Deletion

I've gotten behind on deletion requests. When you have time, would you mind helping out? At least it's a lot better than deleting spam.
- teknomunk (talk,E) 19:59, 2 May 2007 (EDT)

Thanks for the help.
- teknomunk (talk,E) 00:40, 3 May 2007 (EDT)
No problem -- I owe ya!  :) --Kiefer 00:42, 3 May 2007 (EDT)

[edit] User UberBot

Hi, thanks for be ready for help. As I have almost all of Alice Cooper records and existed a lot of "holes" in song listing I listed the songs. I was surprised 'cause a lot of them, even unreleased songs appeared in "blue", as with lyrics. I saw a few and there's no lyrics but only a line created by User UberBot. I think this is automatic but like that we don't know wich songs have "real" lyrics. Examples can be seen in Album "Pretties For You" and the box "The Life and Crimes Of...". Is there any way to turn it off or the lyrics generated by this user are seen by anyone? I think I'll don't have too much problems editing as I'm used to Wikipedia. --Ludovico 05:43, 7 May 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Blocked by spam filter

Kiefer,

I tried to add a bunch of Melvins albums to the artist page, but got blocked when I tried to save my edits. I think the spam filter is hanging on the album name Hostile "Ambee-ent" (real name is that famous sleeping pill) Takeover. Can you tell me what I need to do to add this album? Thanks. boxarocks 20:34, 9 May 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Are these comment types by contributors within LW standards?

Hi. Could you check out this page here, since I've seen you in the history list therefore thought that you might have some knowledge and memory of the page. Thanks. - BryghtShadow 06:54, 10 May 2007 (EDT)

Thanks for the notice. No, those comments aren't within LW standards. Editorializing isn't allowed on Artist, Album, or Song pages. ----Kiefer <img src="/images/5/58/KieferE.jpg" alt="Esperanza" /> <img src="/images/f/f9/KieferTalk.jpg" alt="Talk!" /> 07:41, 10 May 2007 (EDT)
Hmmm... Thought so, but I just needed confirmation. I believe that confirming a 'thought so' is always good. Well, if I find something similar to this that hasn't been under the eyes of a admin, I'll let the admins know. ;) - BryghtShadow 07:46, 10 May 2007 (EDT)

[edit] New Releases

Great idea adding New Releases to the Current Events page! Maybe there is some way a bot can do that for you? (Or at least automated, like the iTunes on the Main Page).

--Jeff Saul (talk,contrib,E) 09:57, 21 May 2007 (EDT)

If I knew how to "bot," perhaps. I'm basically getting the info from the Sunday Best Buy flyer and from Amazon.com. Making it fit our formatting might be a bit tricky, though. Especially since Amazon likes adding add-ons to their titles. It's easy enough to copy. I'll probably add the format to my personal copy-and-paste cheatsheet that I keep open. If there's anything you see (I'm also scanning Google News' Entertainment section) feel free to add it in to the Music News, by the way! You're an admin, so you're not blocked from editing the page. ----Kiefer <img src="/images/5/58/KieferE.jpg" alt="Esperanza" /> <img src="/images/f/f9/KieferTalk.jpg" alt="Talk!" /> 10:53, 21 May 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Wir sind Helden

Hi,
the correct spelling for Wir sind Helden is with a lowercase "s" for "sind". They are a German band, and in German every noun is capitalized, but other words are not - even in titles etc. The same goes for other German band names and album/song titles.
cf the album cover for Von hier an blind, where it's spelled "Wir sind Helden".:
Image:Wir sind Helden - Von hier an blind.jpg
--Salocin 09:00, 3 June 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Bob Dylan John Wesley Harding Album

Hi, Thanks for the welcome. The release date of this album needs changing to 1968, I tried to do it but it showed up as a red link on my contributions, so I reverted. Can you please tell me how to change it? Thanks, Lion King 21:23, 4 June 2007 (EDT)

Just changing the link is not enough. You need to take a few steps to change the release date:
  • Go to the album page and click "What links here" in the toolbox
  • On all the pages in the list, change the link to the new album page (it shows up in red)
  • Now go to the album page and rename it using the move button at the top
  • Finally, you can go to the old album page (click the link on the new one where it says Redirected from...) and request {{deletion}} in case the old name was really wrong.
If you can't do it or you're too afraid to make mistakes (you shouldn't be actually, just be bold :)) just leave a message on my talk page (or below this message, and add a {{helpme}} tag), and I'll help you with it. --Mischko <img src="/images/3/31/Talkicon.png" alt="Talk to me" /> <img src="/images/1/1e/EsperanzaIcon.png" alt="Esperanza Member" /> 11:43, 5 June 2007 (EDT)
Thanks, Mischko for answering while I was away. Perfect answer. I hope everything worked out! ----Kiefer <img src="/images/5/58/KieferE.jpg" alt="Esperanza" /> <img src="/images/f/f9/KieferTalk.jpg" alt="Talk!" /> 15:03, 8 June 2007 (EDT)
Thanks, and you're welcome :)
We worked it out, the move wasn't necessary after all :) --Mischko <img src="/images/3/31/Talkicon.png" alt="Talk to me" /> <img src="/images/1/1e/EsperanzaIcon.png" alt="Esperanza Member" /> 16:26, 8 June 2007 (EDT)
PS welcome back

[edit] autogenerator

Oh I'm sorry! I'll try to pay more attention to the autogenerator in future. Thanks for telling me about it Beeema

Kiefer, I know I have been here awhile and I am an Admin. But here is a dumb question: What is this autogenerator and how do I use it? Is it an external program, an internal link I have yet to find or what? Kind of a newbie question, but hey I can always learn something new!--Jeff Saul (talk,contrib,E) 09:27, 15 June 2007 (EDT)

I am back. Non-capitalizers beware! :-] ----Kiefer <img src="/images/5/58/KieferE.jpg" alt="Esperanza" /> <img src="/images/f/f9/KieferTalk.jpg" alt="Talk!" /> 16:05, 20 August 2007 (EDT)

Glad to have you back.
- teknomunk (talk,E,歌) 16:24, 20 August 2007 (EDT)
Glad to be back! Summer was a little chaotic. Anything major happen while I was gone...besides the Big Guy getting married, of course? ----Kiefer <img src="/images/5/58/KieferE.jpg" alt="Esperanza" /> <img src="/images/f/f9/KieferTalk.jpg" alt="Talk!" /> 16:26, 20 August 2007 (EDT)
Nothing major that I know of. Sean updated the main page a bit, WillMak050389 is taking care of the album of the week, Spammers are vandalizing User:TrevorP/Todo/Lyrics, and the usual.
- teknomunk (talk,E,歌) 17:01, 20 August 2007 (EDT)
Welcome back! --Jeff Saul (T-C-E) 12:15, 22 August 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Thanks

For tearing the crap out of the Fair to Midland page... It wasn't that necessary. But thanks for fixing a lot of the names, when I made all the pages, I tried to do them as quickly as possible. --Sin 15:36, 24 August 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Orphans

This weekend I will be working on cleaning out Special:Lonelypages and I could use some help.

I have a bot that will add song pages to artist pages automatically, but it will not handle true orphans. There are also several pages with broken link tables, but Sean is taking care of that.

But there are unformatted pages, incorrect pagenames and various other pages that need to be taken care of and there are more that I can handle by myself. I doubt that I can get the whole thing finished this weekend, but I have already made a dent in it (the bot is up in the C's).
- teknomunk (talk,E,歌) 11:04, 2 September 2007 (EDT)

Hello, I've been doing a lot of work on the Styx page. I saw it on your to-do list, so you may want to check it out and let me know if I have any errors. Megahexe

[edit] LyricWiki Challenge - Facebook app

Hey,
I don't know if you use facebook or not, but if so... check out the LyricWiki Challenge Facebook app
Let me know if you see any room for improvement, and if it looks good plz try to spread it :)
Thanks,
-Sean Colombo 21:42, 3 September 2007 (EDT)

[edit] BEDlight

Thanks a ton man, I need to figure out how to work mergers and redirects and all that maintenance stuff; I haven't really paid much attention to anything but artist pages, to tell the truth. -- CladInShadows 15:51, 6 September 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Artist categories

Thanks for the reminder about capitalization. Don't be too surprised (or impatient!) if you have to remind me again. :)

I'm editing The John Butler Trio which a bot apparently set up and put in Category:Artists T. While there are many other "The ___" artists here, I'm guessing Artists J would be a better place for it (per The Beatles et al.). Is there a LW policy on this? I'm going to update to J for now; obviously feel free to change it back. --PeterJohnson 17:24, 8 September 2007 (EDT)

Actually, it's a T. I think there were plans at one time to incorporate a subsection for "The" artists(/songs/albums), but more pressing matters have sidelined that, I guess. (Plus, do you do that for Spanish titles or French titles beginning with El or La/Le, etc.?) I don't know...I spend most of my time capitalizing things and correcting song/album/artist names it seems and haven't delved into the categorizing end of things, so I don't know what exactly is involved in such a thing. Then, of course, there are (I'm sure) still some pages that have the article at the end after a comma. ("Beatles, The", for example.) Perhaps after those have been finally cleared out then a bot can insert a subsection category for "The" on each of the appropriate pages. --Kiefer <img src="/images/5/58/KieferE.jpg" alt="Esperanza" /> <img src="/images/f/f9/KieferTalk.jpg" alt="Talk!" /> 19:33, 8 September 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Capitalisation

Understood regarding the capitalisation. Unfortunately, I think breaking the artist's capitalisation is both generally an eyesore and disrespectful to the artists, almost as if we were to modify signatures as we see fit in museums. Of course, it's not my wiki - I just don't see myself contributing in the future because of this. Feel free to revert my edits/moves as you see fit (I don't have any hard feelings on the matter). Laters. --Improv 16:28, 9 September 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Gwen Stefani:Breakin' Up

Good job! I do have the album, so I checked! Tcatron565 17:58, 9 September 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Thanks!

Thanks! I have no idea to add color right now. But, I'll try to learn. I will move it though! It will probably be moved to the top of the page. But again, thanks! Tcatron565 17:22, 10 September 2007 (EDT)


[edit] ALready over

I noticed what the problem was with the Red:Already Over, Pt. 2 and the Red:Already Over, Part 2 pages. One the one that was on the album listing was a redirect to the on that was in the other songs. N8lewis 21:47, 11 September 2007 (EDT)

I am sorry I just went back a re read your post... I fixed it once agian just disregard my last message. N8lewis 21:48, 11 September 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Redirecting

I don't really see why you want to redirect from titles that are wrong to the correct ones, and not just delete the wrong article. That way you wont have a lot of extra links listed as "Other songs" when they are simply typos in the title. And you won't have the same lyric twice on the server :) Sachse 12:02, 13 September 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Moving stuff

Hi, thanks for letting me know - I was wondering why this thing was insisting why "Ziltoid The Omniscient (2007)" was the artist's name, but hey, it's 5am, and I should have gone to bed six hours ago. So.. if you could move the stuff around for me, I'll go to bed and check out what you did, and learn from it when I have a slightly fresher mind on the morrow. Cheers, Unfunk 15:09, 13 September 2007 (EDT)

No problem, I'll put down a little wiki-fu on those pages. Have a good rest on the other side of the planet! (It's 4 pm here.) --Kiefer <img src="/images/5/58/KieferE.jpg" alt="Esperanza" /> <img src="/images/f/f9/KieferTalk.jpg" alt="Talk!" /> 15:12, 13 September 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Sorry

I'm kinda new at this (it took me a little while to figure out how this talk this works)I'll stop with TBM page. Any idea though when it's finished? I was almost done:) —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Cyanide (talk • contribs) .

No problem. I'll see what I can do to get things automatically moved over (since there's only 10 titles on the correct page, it shouldn't be much of a problem, I hope) and let you go to town on The Birthday Massacre. --Kiefer <img src="/images/5/58/KieferE.jpg" alt="Esperanza" /> <img src="/images/f/f9/KieferTalk.jpg" alt="Talk!" /> 12:30, 16 September 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Styx and such

Kiefer,

Hello and thanks for the comments - I used to be a Graphic Designer for IBM - and I have a bit of OCD - so that's why things are going as well as they are.

On the subject of things like (Chorus) (Guitar Solo) etc. ... I've been leaving in most of the stuff that I find elsewhere, whilst trying to clean it up at the same time - I hate to throw anything away, and figure if someone else took the time to put it there ... Anyway, I am going through and cleaning up the footers now - thanks for the input. If you have a chance, please take a look at Styx:Lady. I've been looking at the inclusion of "this song appears on the album ..." But, I feel it can be a little excessive - as in the case of this song. Perhaps, just including the original source, and any special outside uses is enough - for a different example, please take a look at The_Rolling_Stones:Street_Fighting_Man, where I included a link back to the "V For Vendetta" page that I created.

That's all. Any comments are always welcome.

Sincerely,
Megahexe 23:17, 19 September 2007 (GMT)

OCD, eh? Well, I'm studying Library and Information Science, so welcome to the club!
Yeah, other sites tend to put in those little notes, ignoring at times that the choruses are slightly different, or just crowding the page with notations that the reader has to take time to decipher. ("Oh yeah, I've got to scroll back up to the top to read what the chorus is again!") Often, I think it's just a shortcut by whoever supplied the lyrics so that they don't have to re-type the chorus (or cut and paste it even!) Anyhow, I tend to leave speaker/singing notes for most rap songs with multiple rappers and duets and such, but I tend to replace or delete other extra notations, especially the chorus.
As for the Styx page.... I love inclusion, but you're right, that may be a bit much. Some groups have so many compilation/live albums that such an album list on their lyric pages would be fairly commonplace. Always do the song's original album then add in a few more major releases (such as their first Greatest Hits album or best-selling Live collection)...and then maybe a "plus various other albums." addition to the last album on the list? I never really thought about what to do with such a monster list, so that's my best idea at the moment.
The V for Vendetta page was good. I moved it to V For Vendetta (2006) to include the release date, though, since all albums should have it. Including the album on the Rolling Stones lyric page was great because it was on an album that most people wouldn't think of as having the song!
Thanks again for your hard work! --Kiefer <img src="/images/5/58/KieferE.jpg" alt="Esperanza" /> <img src="/images/f/f9/KieferTalk.jpg" alt="Talk!" /> 20:23, 18 September 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Two Small Issues

Me, again ...

On Dennis DeYoung I wasn't able to add links to contributing artist's (external) sites - using the standard "wiki" way (e.g. link title). So, I just dropped the links straight into the html and fixed itself. Not really a big issue, but I got a message to report it to you.

On Mary Fahl I can't add a page for the album "The Other Side Of Time (2003)" because a song with the same name (sans date) already exists. I tried to workaround this by creating a "The Other Side Of Time (2003)a" page, but the attempt to rename it (without the a) failed. Any suggestions?

--Megahexe 10:59, 22 September 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Heads up

It looks like there is a new spam/vandal bot targeting our site and putting random text into articles. For example: "ricelt", "chitrcnadomo", and "chitrcnadomo" Just be on the lookout for this new spam.

[edit] Anonymous edits to High School Musical

Hi Kiefer. I see I have accidentally made some edits while not being logged in. I have moved your message from the IP talk page to my own talk page and responded there. I apologize for the confusion. --Mischko <img src="/images/3/31/Talkicon.png" alt="Talk to me" /> <img src="/images/1/1e/EsperanzaIcon.png" alt="Esperanza Member" /> 05:31, 1 October 2007 (EDT)

[edit] ???!!!=

Is "munged" the technical term? :-O !!!!!!! (Oh, dear Lord, I looked it up, and it basically is. *_* ) --Kiefer <img src="/images/5/58/KieferE.jpg" alt="Esperanza" /> <img src="/images/f/f9/KieferTalk.jpg" alt="Talk!" /> 20:05, 2 October 2007 (EDT)

LOL. Yeah, "munged" really is a technical term. It was most popular during the early days of FrontPage (circa 1998); when you wrote something in notepad, and then loaded it in FrontPage, what would come out was not what went in. FrontPage would totally destroy any table sets, dialogs, etc., and the code would be "munged." So - on those Ruslana pages that I marked for deletion - I assume the original source was probably Cyrillic KOI8-R (the most popular encoding in the former USSR) and it was wrongly converted to UTF-8 by the "bot" that collected the lyrics. So, munged would be appropriate.

Speaking of which, I'm trusting my best judgment, but your input is always welcome. Figuring that the LyricWiki website can handle UTF-8, I laid down album and song titles on the Ruslana website in Ukrainian, but entered the page titles in ASCII, transliterated Ukrainian. Is that ok? --Megahexe 06:54, 3 October 2007 (EDT)


It took me a second to understand what you meant. Personally, I'd go with what the Japan Group is doing, and just use the original language/alphabet used. If you wanted to be a total perfectionist about things, then you could create a redirect from the transliterated titles to the Ukrainian titles and add the translated title after the link on the artist and album pages and create a note about the title's meaning on the lyrics page, but that might be much for even one superhuman to do. Basically, though, except for the capitalization policy (which even I basically ignore for non-roman character sets), the title should be as original/official as possible, even with regards to character sets. Does that help? --Kiefer <img src="/images/5/58/KieferE.jpg" alt="Esperanza" /> <img src="/images/f/f9/KieferTalk.jpg" alt="Talk!" /> 07:21, 3 October 2007 (EDT)
PS:What's up with Мить весни. Дзвінкий вітер (1996, 1998) showing two dates? --Kiefer <img src="/images/5/58/KieferE.jpg" alt="Esperanza" /> <img src="/images/f/f9/KieferTalk.jpg" alt="Talk!" /> 07:22, 3 October 2007 (EDT)
Мить весни. Дзвінкий вітер (1996, 1998) is how it's listed on her website - I assume it probably had a release and a re-release. But, I simplified it in the page title as "In An Instant Of Spring: Sonorous Wind (1996)." By the way, I do agree with you on the subject of keeping things as original as possible (I cringe every time I have to change capitalization for the sake of file policy). However, I have always recommended to groups I've been consulting for to use ASCII over the local character set in the naming of files. The problem is that - if your PC/Mac isn't set up to recognize that character set - you end up with things like __.htm. (Backspace slowly past '.htm' and count the number of times your cursor doesn't move.) Even file names can appear as "empty," thus causing the OS to break operation. (Imagine trying to load a series of files (for instance, photos) in an unrecognized character set. if the OS sees an empty file name, it will only load the first and skip the rest. This is just a safety feature to prevent errors in cyclic redundancy check.) ... I think I just got too technical. : ( Sorry. Ugh, I'll take another look at the Japan Group page, and think about it. : )--Megahexe 08:37, 3 October 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Matchbox 20 and Tabitha's Secret=

Thanks for the reply (on my talk page). Alot of the songs in the "Other Songs" section of the Matchbox 20 page are actually Tabitha's Secret songs, and as such, are, of course, on the wrong page. Is there any way to correct that?

I'm a HUGE Matchbox 20/Tabitha's Secret/Rob Thomas fan, so I can assist greatly in cleaning up these pages.

[edit] sorting

thanks - making Patricia Kaas at the moment i got the trick !</br>pink floyd should be obvious (under P in a non-lyricwiki world) but what about alice cooper huhu ?! (was always under A at my's) Krn02 10:16, 6 October 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Capitalization

lyricwiki should not, for foreign titles (french in this case), accept this rule because it's completely wrong.... for instance, for Patricia Kaas, it's sure not "Je Te Dis Vous" but "Je te dis vous", or not "Scène De Vie" but "Scène de vie"; "La Liberté" is correct in french... has it been already discussed?!? (i do not want to make any error more) Krn02 10:21, 6 October 2007 (EDT)

+ i've seen you're undoing my work....... gulp + does LW want to make the same for all titles?!? Krn02 10:25, 6 October 2007 (EDT)
Yes, the explanation is on the LW:PN page. Basically, each country has its own capitalization rules. We break all, so that no matter what artist from what country a visitor (no matter what country he or she is from) is editing, the filing system is the same. The display version of the title on song lists can display the correct capitalization, but for simplicity and universality of filing, the initial-letter-capitalization policy was created. It is better if six people are editing Patricia Kaas:Scène De Vie rather than 2 editing Patricia Kaas:Scene de vie, one editing Patricia Kaas:Scène de vie and 3 editing Patricia Kaas:Scène De Vie. By capitalizing every intial letter of every word, I realize that we manage to break the normal capitalization rules of every country, but at least we break it for all!
Also, as a sort of post script: I noticed on a few of your moves, that you removed accented characters. Were these incorrectly accented or was this in error? (For instance, on preview I notice that none of my examples above work, because the album is filed under Patricia Kaas:Scene de vie (1990) with an e instead of an è.)
--Kiefer <img src="/images/5/58/KieferE.jpg" alt="Esperanza" /> <img src="/images/f/f9/KieferTalk.jpg" alt="Talk!" /> 10:35, 6 October 2007 (EDT)

[edit] accents

i made a wrong choice a few hours ago about accents because i kept them only in the shown text (what we read in the list Patricia Kaas), not in the article title : i will correct these...

this means "À_L'Enterrement_De_Sidney_Bechet" (for "À l'enterrement de Sidney Bechet) is correct, or: "Mon_Mec_À_Moi" (for "Mon mec à moi")...

which means i'm going to make some moves again, too bad... (for me) Krn02 14:32, 6 October 2007 (EDT)

It's okay. I have no doubt that it will all get done. What you currently have looks very good! I tried finding a site earlier today that had a decent discography/song list for her albums, and didn't find a good one (her own website is surprisingly quite uninformative with a few links that do nothing, etc.). It looks like you either have all her albums or have found a good resource! Hopefully this means that things are going better for you! --Kiefer <img src="/images/5/58/KieferE.jpg" alt="Esperanza" /> <img src="/images/f/f9/KieferTalk.jpg" alt="Talk!" /> 18:37, 6 October 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Editing buttons

Hi,
On my user page (probably 8 eons ago), you left a comment saying that the editor's buttons didn't show up on new pages because the yellow box with the links to different templates for "New Artist", "New Album", etc. were covering them up. I checked it out in FireFox and IE7 on Windows and couldn't reproduce the problem. Is it possible that they just took a longer time to load? (they take a lot longer than the rest of the page for me) If not, what browser/OS are you using?
Thanks (and sorry for the much-belated followup),
-Sean Colombo 15:56, 6 October 2007 (EDT)

Yeah, I think that was the problem. At the time they were taking soooooo long to load, that I think they just never did. I don't have that problem any more, (occasionally there is a few seconds delay, but quite manageable) so it really just kind of went out of my mind. Thanks! --Kiefer <img src="/images/5/58/KieferE.jpg" alt="Esperanza" /> <img src="/images/f/f9/KieferTalk.jpg" alt="Talk!" /> 18:28, 6 October 2007 (EDT)

[edit] maybe you can help : article/link

at Patricia Kaas#Other Songs i have a link + article whose link works : J'En Tremblerai Encore

and i have the very same article/link which does not work at Patricia Kaas#Sexe Fort : song #7 = red link

( but here it works: Patricia_Kaas:Sexe_Fort_(2004)#J’en tremblerai encore ?!)

[[Patricia_Kaas:J’En_Tremblerai_Encore|J’en tremblerai encore]] at "sexe fort"</br>[[Patricia_Kaas:J'En_Tremblerai_Encore|J'En Tremblerai Encore]] at "other"

thanks in advance Krn02 00:19, 7 October 2007 (EDT)

I guess it got fixed, because everything seems fine now. I hope that's the case. Sorry about the delay in replying. --Kiefer <img src="/images/5/58/KieferE.jpg" alt="Esperanza" /> <img src="/images/f/f9/KieferTalk.jpg" alt="Talk!" /> 19:22, 7 October 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Something screwed up

Please take a look at this. --MiSP 07:45, 7 October 2007 (EDT)

Yeah, for some unknown reason those Help pages tend to muck things up when sections are edited. I have no idea why, and have suffered from this weirdness myself. --Kiefer <img src="/images/5/58/KieferE.jpg" alt="Esperanza" /> <img src="/images/f/f9/KieferTalk.jpg" alt="Talk!" /> 21:30, 7 October 2007 (EDT)
Think I found the culprit - seems everything works if you only edit the whole page (and not just a section using the "Edit" links on the headings). Perhaps the pre tags are to blame. --MiSP 02:04, 8 October 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Redirect?

Could you please tell me how to do that? I'm very new to this. Thanks

Tejdog1 14:32, 7 October 2007 (EDT)Tej

Delete everything in the page and replace it with this: 
#redirect [[page being redirected to]]
Easy as pie. =) --MiSP 14:39, 7 October 2007 (EDT)

[edit] just a question

Hey, I noticed when I looked at the Quietdrive page, there were several albums that weren't acutally released by a record company, but they were self-released. So-- Anyway, my point is, if you are part of a band and have self released an album or EP, can you create an article for it? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by Cell4 (talk • contribs) .

This was also asked on my talk page and I answered it there. (Short answer: definitely.)
-Sean Colombo 18:45, 7 October 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Matchbox 20, Other Songs

Is there any way to just get rid of that whole section and allow me to construct it from scratch? Practically every song in that section belongs somewhere else, some need to be deleted, some need to be moved, others are just Matchbox "Twenty" instead of "20".

Tejdog1 16:09, 8 October 2007 (EDT)Tej

There is not really an easy way to do it. The "Matchbox Twenty" songs should be redirected to the "Matchbox 20" equivalents, the ones that need to be deleted should have {{Deletion}} added to the top, and the ones that need to be moved just need to be moved (tab at the top of the song page). If you have any questions or need help, just let me (or any admin) know and we will be more that happy to help. Songs that have been redirected can be removed from the "Other Songs" list without worrying that Janitor will put them back in.
- teknomunk (talk,E,歌) 16:17, 8 October 2007 (EDT)
Redirects, redirects, redirects, I'm afraid. Sorry. --Kiefer <img src="/images/5/58/KieferE.jpg" alt="Esperanza" /> <img src="/images/f/f9/KieferTalk.jpg" alt="Talk!" /> 16:27, 8 October 2007 (EDT)
I guess I should look at my janitor scripts before I post a reply, I had a mass redirect script lying around :P
I took care of redirecting all of the "Matchbox Twenty" to their "Matchbox 20" equivalents, so you don't have to worry about any of that.
- teknomunk (talk,E,歌) 16:37, 8 October 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Mangled Artist Characters?

You may very well be right. I had assumed that it was a band, because lately I have seen some strange band names that really are real bands. I figured better safe than sorry. - Kingnee1114lyrics 15:36, 10 October 2007 (EDT)

Good call by the way. I found that it is a song by Milú. It took a bit, but google is a wonderful thing...
- Kingnee1114lyrics 16:36, 10 October 2007 (EDT)

[edit] By the Way, Thanks

Thanks for your vote of confidence about adminship.
Kingnee1114lyrics 00:14, 11 October 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Signature

Any idea why I can't make a signature under preferences? I joined Esperanza and I wanted to make a link in my sig (for talk pages), but I can't seem to do it! -- Aquatiki 08:12, 11 October 2007 (EDT)

Looking at my preferences, my signature is in the box marked Nickname in the User Profile section. Is that where yours is? I have:
--[[User:Kiefer|Kiefer]] [[User:Kiefer/Esperanza|<img src="/images/5/58/KieferE.jpg" alt="Esperanza" />]] [[User_talk:Kiefer|<img src="/images/f/f9/KieferTalk.jpg" alt="Talk!" />]]
to get:
--Kiefer <img src="/images/5/58/KieferE.jpg" alt="Esperanza" /> <img src="/images/f/f9/KieferTalk.jpg" alt="Talk!" /> 12:19, 11 October 2007 (EDT)
Ohhhh: I was looking for some special tab just for that. Nevermind. --Åqúàŧĩkī - É - Ŧ 23:42, 11 October 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Sum 41 Other Songs

regarding your message, i do not know which artists made those songs, but they are not Sum 41 songs. some are even repeted twice. i removed thosethere are also some songs which are alternated name for songs (ANIC and Asshole, No Brains and Yesterday.com). the ones that i left when i cleaned them up, are live covers which are not on a CD (How You remind me, Rock/ Metallica Medley), and some which are on a tribute CD (killer Queen). please consider this. Thefixer 20:51, 11 October 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Justin Timberlake

Well, thanks for the correction, I looked it up on Wikipedia to make sure which title was correct. I clicked on a link on Justin Timberlake that was the correct title, but it must have redirected me to an incorrect page and I just copied that title. Thanks for catching my mistake. You don't have to punish yourself, I mean, if you don't want to. --WillMak050389 01:03, 12 October 2007 (EDT)

Oh, no. I need no extra punishment.  :- ] I think you may have hit the link on the album page, as it went to the page that you used. That's the problem with separate album pages...they sometimes lag in editing. I'm sure I forget to update them often enough, myself. --Kiefer <img src="/images/5/58/KieferE.jpg" alt="Esperanza" /> <img src="/images/f/f9/KieferTalk.jpg" alt="Talk!" /> 05:24, 12 October 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Do you remember where this is?

Trying to find the template (I think it's a template) that does an anchored alphabetical listing, such as for indexes. Displays in a blue box as I recall, with the letters separated by pipes (if memory serves). Saw it somewhere on the site, but can't find it now to save my life.

Looks like: A | B | C | D | E | F | G | H | I | J | K | L | M | N | O | P | Q | R | S | T | U | V | W | X | Y | Z

Do you recall where that is? Looking to integrate it on the page I'm working on (your comments on that page very welcome, BTW).

JF 05:52, 17 October 2007 (EDT)

Neeeeeeeeever mind. Just found it.  ;-) JF 06:21, 17 October 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Need your opinion...

When you get a chance, please take a look at this page that I'm working on. Teknomunk encouraged me to go ahead, but I was a bit hesitant to drop this onto the actual AlbumFooter page without someone knowledgeable reviewing it first for problems.

And while I'm at it, can you clarify the "noinclude" markup for me a bit? I understand the principle of portions being allowed or disallowed depending whether viewed directly or embedded, but I'm not sure I quite grasp when that would cause problems. Teknomunk corrected the markup on the Default template that I created, and I'm guessing from where he moved things that NOTOC and NOEDITSECTION would propagate to a parent page (and make them noneditable and without a table of contents). But I'm still shaky on when things would propagate "upwards" and when they wouldn't. Been reading up on the markup over at Wikipedia, and still a bit confused. Sometimes RTFM still leaves you fuzzy...  ;)

JF 02:14, 18 October 2007 (EDT)

From what I understand (and I am not a template maker by ANY stretch of the imagination), the noinclude markup is to set aside the description of the template so that it isn't referenced when the wiki follows the template's instructions/code.
Basically, the 'noinclude' sections are only visible when the Template page itself is viewed, while the 'includeonly' sections are only visible when the template is included on another page. The includeonly section generally encompasses the template coding, although, as in the case with the SongFooter, can include headers, etc.
But once again, I haven't tried my hand at template creation. I have modified templates before, but haven't created one from scratch. I am an old-school (from the days of Pascal and C) programmer, so I can usually "read" coding fairly well, though.
I have slightly modified the Template:AlbumFooterPending to remove what I believe are unnecessary noinclude tags and to make the generic template view more readable to editors. (I had to format it like this to make sure that I saw what was happening within the section.)
I do want to say that I appreciate the effort that you are making here. Many of the templates have descriptions (or more lengthy descriptions) because I added them when I had to take the time to figure out how they worked. Many don't, and I've always thought that they should. It is a really good thing that you are doing to make these more accessible to newer editors. Not only do you add content and make helpful edits, but with this project, you are making the site more accessible. A huge thank you!    Kiefer    talk    contribs    admin   14:55, 18 October 2007 (EDT)
Aw, shucks.  :)
Yeah, watching my edits definitely appreciated until I get the hang of things a bit better (and even then!). Just finished a lengthy reply on my talk page concerning a goof I did on the Deletion template. Found a section about inclusion on Wikipedia that might clear up some of my confusion. Will definitely be doing some more reading. But in the meanwhile, may give my head a rest and go back to my Human League tidying.  ;)
JF 20:49, 19 October 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Page names

Hi, I saw your comment about ÜberBot messing up capitalization. He is indeed disagreeing with LW:PN. I remember part of the capitalization issues had to do with trying to make AC/DC and other all-capped names work. This does bring up an interesting problem though... if we're only capitalizing the first letter of every word and leaving the rest up to the real title, that makes naming pages easy for small words "To", "A", etc. but doesn't solve the problem of the SOAP webservice (which I think is 80% of our requests) being able to find all titles.

What are your thoughts on getting the API to always work?

  1. Just continue to try to add redirects when songs don't match (the vast majority of songs match right off the bat).
  2. Change the standard to make it so that we make the caps all ucwords(strtolower($title)) which is basically what ÜberBot was doing (with some exceptions for weird things like apostrophes).
  3. Make some sort of technical upgrade to the API to make it be fine with this capitalization problem (the MediaWiki database setup is case-sensitive). Until this very second I was thinking "this can't be done in a simple, graceful way"... but this is OUR database, we can change it how we want to. Potential solution: make each page-title have an extra column which is the title in all-lowercase and just search on that.

Coming into this comment I was leaning towards #2, but now I'm probably #3, #1, #2? Fairly confused. Input appreciated! (maybe this should go on LW:PN's talk page?)

Thanks,
-Sean Colombo 22:58, 18 October 2007 (EDT)

I'm not sure I am entirely confident about what all of the options involve. I know we get enough grumbling with the all-intial-caps requirement, I'm really not sure if changing the standard so that initial caps and then everything else uncapped would go over very well at all.
I suppose that ÜberBot could be used to automatically create redirects from these alternate capitalizations that it is attempting to 'fix' by uncapitalizing "inside" of words, such as on the Cage page. So, instead of making a correction on the page, he creates a new redirect?
As for option three's potential solution: Once again, I'm not entirely sure what you mean to do here. "Extra column?" What does that involve? Would this solution treat a redirect with alternate capitalization the same as the page with correct capitalization? If so, when searching, which result will be returned? Would it even matter, as if it 'grabbed' the redirect instead of the 'true' page, it would just automatically go to the 'true' page anyhow? I'm not sure. As I stated above, I'm old-school programming (C & Pascal around 1990) so I can usually get the gist of things even if I don't know the specific nuts and bolts of the code. I'm just not very familiar with what the SOAP webservice is doing exactly and how it's used, which makes it difficult for me to give an opinion with confidence.    Kiefer    talk    contribs    admin   21:08, 19 October 2007 (EDT)
You're probably right that changing the standard would be doubleplusunfun. The "Extra column" just means that in the database each page would have a page title and an all-lowercase page title. Basically this would take away differences between differently-capitalized pages (which I think is okay for our use). The redirects would still work fine (the SOAP follows redirects too), but there may be some other problems (like it might be really slow to search). I might have to do serious surgery on MediaWiki to take out case-sensitivity, but in the end it'd probably be worth it.
-Sean Colombo 12:15, 20 October 2007 (EDT)
Hope you guys don't mind me butting in on admin talk.  ;) Concerning the case, my input would be to leave it as it is. However, since some people do have issues (with things like "NoRMAhl" and "k.d. lang"), would a possible solution be to simply add a new parameter to Template:Artist? We have one for "romanizedname", so how about one for "displayname" or something like that where the correct capitalization could be applied for display purposes?
Don't know anything about the machinery involved, but I note that a search will find the contents of Template:Artist along with everything else, so that would solve the problem with finding artists with varied capitalization. And maybe some template tricks could be applied, so that the "displayname" is used for displaying the artist name in every place where it isn't critical to wiki operation and categorization.
I think a lot of users would be more comfortable with the capitalization policy if they had that option, and you'd hear less grumbling. While I'm quite fine with the existing policy, I certainly see the desire for perfection there. "k.d. lang capitalized? That's just wrong..."  ;)
— JF 16:49, 20 October 2007 (EDT)
Well, adding a column to the database would allow us to have the page Normahl, NoRMahl, normahl and NORMAHL would literally be the same page. We could also change it so that the first letter of an artist can be lower case. I don't know how much work would be involved and I, unfortunately have been somewhat busy with school and will be for the foreseeable future so I can't guarantee that I will be able to work on it, but I suspect that several things will need to be changed.
Sean, do you see any technical reasons that this would not work? An actual pagename (all lower case, would be affected by move) and a display pagename (what is shown and used for the URL, SOAP, etc., changed by a new 'rename' command).
To actually make the transition to this would be a little difficult as all pages that would have the same name would have to be merged BEFORE completely transitioning to the new format (likely to be done by the admins).
- teknomunk (talk,E,歌) 00:01, 21 October 2007 (EDT)

[edit] help again

hi again - on the page Patricia Kaas:Piano Bar (2002) i have text (#5 : "...mulligan") which goes under the pic, sigh - thanks in advance Krn02 08:15, 19 October 2007 (EDT)

It's fine for me. What browser are you using?    Kiefer    talk    contribs    admin   19:34, 19 October 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Re: Janitor

Actually, that page was using the Duplicate template, which I, perhaps incorrectly, assumed was officially recognized by the administration of this site. I ended up just redirecting it, but now I'm wondering if Duplicate has any use or if I should just stop using it. ~ Wind Owl 12:25, 20 October 2007 (EDT)

It should be noted that I did not create the Duplicate template, and I had no intention whatsoever of "ignor[ing] the current procedures, and expect[ing] everything to work out." I am very much an advocate of standardization, and I apologize if I've done something to clog up the system. I do ask, however, that the administration consider Duplicate for official use, as it does have potential to be useful (which is why I even started using it in the first place.) ~ Wind Owl
My apologies, I should have said in hindsight that you can't edit a template. My wording of the note was imprecise and unduly terse, which I shouldn't have been, and for that I apologize as well. You do appear to be a conscientious, capable editor, and I should have used a different tone. However, while you did not originate the Duplicate template, you did edit it to include a reason for deletion, which the template did not originally include, and so my concern was justified. The template instead stated (and states) that "It should be merged into that page and then flagged for deletion with {{Deletion|Reason for deletion}}", which is the correct procedure, and why the "Stupid User:Janitor bot is stupid" comment (which is likely what stoked my fire a bit) wasn't true.
As for the template itself, we have templates for merge requests (shown on Help:Templates/Listing) that can be placed on both the merging to and merging from pages. The Duplicate template is pretty (I'm not sure what the sheep picture is for - a symbol of cloning, I guess), but redundant, insufficient (as it goes on only the one page), and suggests that the page should eventually be deleted, when in most cases a redirection would be preferable.
In fact, in most cases of duplicate pages, either the duplicate should be made into a redirect, or should be (if it is an improvement over the correct page) moved using a cut-and-paste from the duplicate page with the redirect manually placed afterwards. All of which isn't much more difficult than placing the template and actually cleans up the duplication in the process. Templates asking for editing help are good if the editor doesn't have the time, skill, or capability (such as with deletions) to fix the problem, but should really be used infrequently.
Hopefully, this explains things a little better and is helpful to you. If you ever have questions, please feel free to ask. I understand that it can be difficult to get one's bearings at a site such as this without help.    Kiefer    talk    contribs    admin   15:20, 22 October 2007 (EDT)
I'm sorry if my 'Stupid Janitor bot is stupid' comment came off the wrong way; I suppose I did start that one, and I apologize. I was unaware of this list and I will conform to it from now on. Perhaps the Duplicate template itself should be flagged for deletion. The Merge request templates are indeed more concise and efficient, albeit perhaps lacking in cute little sheep icons. Again, I apologize for being a hindrance to the LyricWiki system, and in the future I will be sure to refrain from using crude internet memes in my edit summaries. ~ Wind Owl 17:49, 22 October 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Internal link to redirect without redirection

Was working on a new version of Help:Redirect, and when I tried saving, got a warning that the save was being blocked as a possible spam attempt. The culprit was a link that said "Click here to see what a redirected page looks like". I had applied an external link to the LyricWiki:Redirect page, which was the only way I could think of to make it go to that page without bouncing right back to the page you were reading.

Is there any kind of equivalent of "&redirect=no" for internal links? Or is the only option to get an admin to put that content in place to bypass the spam filter?

— JF 17:00, 20 October 2007 (EDT)

Hmmmm. Strange. I'm not sure why it blocked you. "Click here", perhaps? Spammers love the phrase "click here!" At any rate, I added the link to the page, and I hope that it's similar to what you wanted. If not, editing around it should hopefully be good and not get the edits blocked. If so, write me again!    Kiefer    talk    contribs    admin   15:34, 22 October 2007 (EDT)
Actually, that's exactly what I did. Only difference being that the link was applied to the "Click here" part of "Click here to see what a redirected page looks like". Tried a null edit to see if the spam filter would kick me out again for the link alone, and can't tell for certain. This time, it apparently just ignored my save, and I didn't see the "possible spam attempt" message. May try it again, and reword it so there is no "click here" involved and see if it takes it. If worst comes to worst, might put the page in with just the barren link, and get one of my favorite admins to change the text for me. (Hint, hint...)
— jF 01:38, 23 October 2007 (EDT)
Whoah, I stand monstrously corrected. It's having issues with the code for the sample redirect link, not the link to a redirect page. Can't quote the exact text without tripping the spam filter here as well, but it was the anchor and HREF that were freaking it out.
(On that page, hit the top LyricWiki Redirect page link. Then view the source of the page, and look for the uppermost line given a class of "contentSub". That entire line, including the div tags, is what I copied and pasted to display the sample redirect link, and what the spam filter doesn't like.)
By using an internal link instead of the anchor/HREF code, got the same result and the spam filter was quite happy with it. Go figure... Left a comment in the article source, if you want to see where the issue was.  ;) — jF 02:03, 23 October 2007 (EDT)

[edit] Possible new project...

Looks like I'm going to be driving you crazy with questions. Never be nice to me—I will certainly take advantage of it.  ;)

While working on Template:AlbumFooterPending, the thought crossed my mind that a lot of people don't know what an "eponymous album" is. A lot of other things might need explaining to novices, too, such as the difference between original and reissue, what EP's and LP's are, etcetera.

While I'm not sure a full official glossary article would be merited at this point, I did wonder if there was a particular place already slated for such things. Like "Help:Eponymous" or maybe even something like "Definitions:Eponymous". If so, placing small individual articles initially might be best, then collecting and referencing them later in a single document (much as the case with Help:Index).

What do you think?

— jF 18:29, 20 October 2007 (EDT)

I think a glossary section for the site would be a good addition. "Help:Glossary" would be a good location, and could have a musical section header and a wiki section header, perhaps. Help:Glossary/Eponymous could then be created for the definition. Good idea!    Kiefer    talk    contribs